Prius Multi Function Display update

I found a web site that shows how to fix the MFD. Turns out there is a bad solder joint on one of the circuit boards inside the computer that sits behind the screen. I will try the fix and report back. It takes some doing to remove the dash, then the MFD and then take out the affected printed circuit board, but I'll give it a whirl. I have never heard back from anyone at Toyota of Berkeley. The repair site is here:
http://www.techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/mfd/

Prius broken Multi-Function-Display update

I have not yet heard from Toyota of Berkeley's owner, Tim Southwick. I wrote the letter in May of 2007 and it has been over seven months (see letter in a previous post). So I have contacted the Toyota Customer Experience hot line (800-331-4331) and had several conversations with a woman named Robin. She has been very courteous and diligent about getting back to me. After about five calls, including calls she made to the national and regional offices of Toyota, she informed me of the bad news. This I find hard to believe, and you may also. Toyota is not going to give me a break on the MFD replacement. Well, actually, they claim that the $850 or so they want to replace it IS a break already, and that a new unit is over $3,000. This is a factory refurb unit they want to sell me. I insisted that I had read on the Priuschat site that people had gotten much better deals, even no charge or $200 or so, and Robin confirmed this. However, she said the customer cited in that post had purchased five Toyotas from that dealer so they were doing the loyal customer a big favor. I said that this is ridiculous. The MFD is known to be bad in the 2004 Prius model year and they often fail. (Toyota technical service bulletin TSB #EL002-05 details this issue.) She said there were nothing they can do for me. I have to say that I'm very disappointed in Toyota, and in Toyota of Berkeley particularly. I asked Robin to have someone from Toyota of Berkeley at least phone me to tell me the news and respond to my letter. But so far there has been no call. It's been a few weeks now. I have no intention of paying $850 to have Toyota repair a piece of equipment that has a known defect, and that there is even a technical service bulletin for. Toyota should replace these free of charge when they come in broken in the way that is the known and expected failure mode, in my opinion! This does not speak well of the Prius, nor of Toyota USA.

Prius update

Well, four months later.... I have heard nothing from Toyota of Berkeley. I am going to phone the Toyota Customer Experience line next. I have contacted Channel 4 KPIX TV in the Oakland area about this, and corresponded with the consumer advice people. They claim to have contacted a different Toyota dealership and been told about the "goodwill" situation (that if folks are not bringing in their cars for regular service at the expensive dealership shop they do not get treated very well in gray area situations like this) and that the MFD is out of warranty and that therefore I should have to pay full price for repair. I find the inconsistency over this particular failure and repair to be annoying and to not speak well of Toyota. I believe they should simply issue a recall or a blanket policy to replace malfunctioning multi-display units. If anyone has specific phone numbers and even names of contacts to call about this, I would appreciate it if you were to email me.

Bob

Prius update: Broken computer

Bad news about my Prius. The multi-function-display, the touch screen in the middle of the dashboard that has all the goodies on it such as the navigation system has failed, and the dealer has just told me that it will not be replaced, even though many Prius owners have reported this failure. Here is my letter to the local Toyota dealership, explaining my chagrin over the lack of coverage. The failure occured shortly after the 36,000 mile warranty expired. A new unit if $4000. A refurb unit is $825+tax.

5/30/07

RE: My 2004 Prius MFD failure

ATTN: Tim Southwick Jr., Toyota of Berkeley, CA

Dear Mr Southwick,

In August of 2003, I reserved and paid in advance for a new 2004 Prius that I have been very happy with, for the most part. I was an early adopter of a new technology, buying even before the car was available. I took possession in October, 2004. Having previously driven a Honda EV+, I was all in favor of electrics and hybrids. I am an author of over 40 books about computers and technology, and have written over 100 magazine articles about high technology, and have promoted the Prius actively since happily purchasing it from Marty Zeitman at your dealership. I have sent numerous people to your dealership to look at Priuses, and probably am responsible for a few of your sales. I myself purchased the full package #6 with all the bells and whistles. It hasn’t been perfect, with the navigation system sometimes leading me astray, for example, but that is to be expected.

At about 35K miles, the multi-display unit began to malfunction. No navgation, no radio, energy system not showing battery level, etc. I’m sure you are aware of this issue. I thought it was a glitch and would clear up, as the car is basically a computer on wheels, and we all know that computers lose their minds sometimes. Since I write books about computers, I know all about that! I just waited and hoped the problem would clear up, but it did not. I Googled about, read the Prius forums, and found that lo and behold I was not the only person with this problem! In fact, it's happening on 2004 Highlanders and Land Cruisers with the navigation system, and on 2004 Prius with or without the navigation system. I even hear there a TSB #EL002-05 which identifies this problem, which means Toyota is aware of this issue, so most likely it is an inherent design flaw meaning it was there from the beginning, including before the 36,000 mile mark was passed. In any case, the owner’s manual clearly describes the MFD as being part of the hybrid system, so it shouldn't even be an issue. This failure should be covered up to 100,000 miles!

After realizing this was not going to clear up, I was about 5K miles past the warranty. I brought my Prius into your dealership today for reprogramming (since I received a TSB recall, called SSC 50P), and had it all checked out. Repair team captain Ray Prasad told me that it was indeed defective and I would not be covered, and I could have a refurb unit installed for $800 or so, plus tax. I was not happy about this, and so I then had a long conversation with Dave, your shop manager, who explained that because I had not come in for regular service at your dealership, I was not favorably looked upon for an out of-warranty repair of the MFD. I said I did not understand this policy, since I had already given the dealership quite a large sum to purchase the car. He explained that this was essentially irrelevant. He said that good will was dependent upon bringing a car into the dealership for service. (Apparently the good will of brining you $28,000 has very short legs.) Oddly enough, he then went on to explain that actually the dealership lost money doing oil changes because of the labor costs. I explained that I was getting my oil changes for $15 when I supply the Mobil 1 5W-30 that I like to put in my cars, and that even includes a filter, so we were both better off if I got my oil changes elsewhere. I also said that last time I asked for a tire rotation, his shop refused to do it because there was not enough tread on the tires. At that time, I felt pretty rudely treated by Ray, who grilled me about where I was getting my service done, which is another reason I had not returned for regular service, by the way.

I feel I came to Toyota of Berkeley in 2003 in good faith, and paid MSRP for a car I had never even seen before. I did not haggle, or even try. I paid $28,000 cash. This was the first new car I have ever bought. I sold my Nissan 300ZX and Audi 5000 to be able to afford this. Now this car seems has a known defect that was not recalled by Toyota. Maybe Toyota was hoping most failures would happen after the 36K warranty expired. Yet many people seem to be getting a pretty good deal from some Toyota dealerships who admit this manufacturing defect. (I can quickly find more than a few examples on Prius-chat of owners saying they got replacements for either no charge or a few hundred dollars.) But not me. I now have a state-of-the-art hybrid with no navigation system, intermittent radio with limited tuning ability, limited climate controls, and no energy readout.

I currently have a blog online at http://bobcowart.blogspot.com/ talking about the Prius mostly in positive terms. My 45 technology books are available in over 15 languages (see Amazon.com under Robert Cowart) and have sold over 1 million copies worldwide. I would love to continue to praise the Prius to my readership and those who read my blog. However, this recent development has me wondering whether Toyota’s reputation for reliability might be falling into question. While I applaud Toyota for taking the leadership to research and produce the Prius (which I realize has been a loss leader while the demand for hybrids heats up), I also feel they must own up to electronics design errors, just as computer manufacturers such as Dell and Lenovo have done recently around defective batteries that were well out of warranty. It appears the MFD in the early 2004 Prius was defective from the outset and should be replaced without making disgruntled owners jump through hoops at their dealerships.

I look forward to your reply, and will await it prior to contacting regional or national Toyota Customer Service.

Sincerely,

Robert Cowart

My 2004 Prius

Gotta say I love my Prius, mostly. I even sold my Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo (300HP) just because I prefer to drive the Prius. It's like driving a smooth-running computer. Less than 1/3 the horsepower, and the handling sucks, relative to the Z, but the creature comforts (such as not feeling every crack in the road) make it well worth the tradeoff. The super smooth infinitely-variable-speed transmission is a dream. The best part is parking because the gas engine shuts off and you're driving by electric motor. I want to upgrade the battery system to run 40 miles around town on just electric, but this will void the warranty. Since I'm at about 37K miles, the bumper-to-bumper warranty is already over, but the power-train warranty is still in force. I must say that voice control for the nav system, audio system, climate control, and even looking for restaurants is pretty cool stuff. I call the nav system "Miss Information" (it has a female voice and sometimes gets me lost), but mostly I end up at the right destination even if not via the quickest route. The bluetooth link with the phone sucks, though. I do not use it, and Toyota should be taken to task for the software design. It does not import the phonebook from my BT phone worth a damn and the audio is distorted (my phone is an Audiovox PPC-6600 Sprint, running Pocket PC 2003). Don't expect to import your contacts list without major fiddling, and read up about phone compatibility before assuming it will all work. My Treo 650 had good audio with the in-car hands-free system, but the Audiovox did not.

EPA mileage claims 66MPG or some nonesense. I have been getting between 35 and 43 typically. I had a few tanks break the 50. I do live up a large hill, so I believe I am losing a lot on the way up, even though I recover as much as possible on the way down (using "B") mode on the shifter. If I turn off the climate control system, I seem to get about 5-7MPG more over the course of a tank.

Sometimes the onboard computer seems to lose its mind and the car will not start. This happens about twice a year. It's half turned on, meaning the accessories system is on but the hybrid system won't turn on. Nor will the car shut off so it can be 'rebooted.' It responds to no keypresses at all. It seems to have to just time out and eventually will allow me to restart it. This could take a couple of minutes. This has only happened in a parking place such as my garage, not in the middle of traffic somewhere, thank goodness. I have never had the 'dying in traffic' problem that some 2nd-Edition (2004+) models were reported have had.

One other complaint is how the shifter stick works. It's like a joystick on a kid's computer game controller. After selecting a gear (such as 'D') you release the stick and it always pops back to a resting place. The problem is, if you hold the shifter in a position such as Drive or Reverse for a few seconds, the engine go into Neutral. If you're used to keeping your hand on the shifter of your old car (whether automatic or manual) after shifting into a gear (and who isn't?) this can really foul you up. You're trying to accelerate or back up and suddenly no-go. The car just stops advancing. And unlike purely-gas cars, you don't have an engine revving in neutral when you step on the gas to give you a sense of what's up. In this car, nothing happens. It just suddenly loses power and is silent. Many people probably think it has just stalled. It just suddenly feels as though you have lost power. Select D or R again and the car moves, so long as you remember to take your hand off of the shifter stick and allow it to jump back to its normal resting place. I think Toyota should fix this ergonomic oddity.

I often load my Prius up with gear for playing in my rock band, and then have to back up my driveway into my garage to unload. I have noticed a distinct lack of backup power. Admittedly I have a full load and I'm backing up a steep driveway. Sometimes the car will not even move. No revving, no spinning wheels, and minimal sound from the engine. The electric motor seems to be the only engine working. If I press the accelerator completely to the floor and wait a few seconds, it will sometimes kick in the gas engine finally, and I can make it slowly up the hill. I believe the gas engine should come on sooner when the computer senses that the accelerator is floored and the wheels are not turning. I did have the front wheels lower than the rear (thus the drive wheels would not have been tempted to spin), so it was not the traction control that was kicking in. I'm not sure what the issue is, and it may have been fixed in post-2004 models.